Posts by Cold Steel

17

Bad experiences in waking someone up?

by Fred Flintstone in

i mean, is it advisable to try to wake a friend up?

what about the risk of he/she falling into depression?

anger?

Cold Steel

It's a tough question if he's presently happy. You can just let him stay and he'll most likely figure it out when Armageddon doesn't happen, or you can attempt to enlighten him, in which case he will either be crushed with nothing left to replace it with or he will esteem you as an enemy and an apostate.

Is your friend married to a JW wife? How about his parents -- are they JW? You probably don't want to break up a family, right? If he's married, let TTATT hit them at the same time down the road. Don't muck up his life or his marriage.

11

Has Politics Affected Your Friendships?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i’ve read that some families are not looking forward to spending time with their families and friends during the holidays because of their opposing political views.. isn’t that just ridiculous?

?.

Cold Steel

I've never seen it so bad. The political climate is such that people's health have been affected. We have a friend who last year was in great shape. Now she's developed high blood pressure and insomnia. We had dinner with her and her husband and midway through the meal she brought up Donald Trump and the Republicans and almost lost it. And even though my wife is a liberal Democrat (I'm a Libertarian), she was astonished at the raw hatred our friend displayed. It was so visceral and intense that we worry about her health.

My wife's a Democrat, as I said, but she couldn't bring herself to vote for Hillary. But what bothered her the most was the double standard our friend displayed. My wife liked Bernie, yet our friend felt people like my wife (not to mention ME) paved the way for Donald Trump getting into office. So what that Hillary screwed Bernie? After she skizzled him out of the race what was needed was healing! Bernie knew he'd been screwed, but he played ball. And so what that she called Donna Brazile a "brain dead water buffalo!" All Hillary's crimes and indiscretions are old news. What we need is to get Trump out of office! He's a menace and will get us into nuclear war!

That's how she sees it.

I think the problem comes when these people begin believing their own propaganda. They're so used to winning that when Trump won the election, they couldn't handle it. As a libertarian, I've been critical of Trump's decision to send more troops into Afghanistan and Iraq. I oppose going to war against a country, then building it up after we defeat it. In the case of Europe and Japan after the second world war, I can see it, though I believe MacArthur's approach in Japan was vastly superior to Marshall's plan in Europe. But now we're spending massive amounts of money in moving troops into hostile areas, bombing it to rubble, then rebuilding it. It's insanity.

So yes, politics have polarized the country, and we have huge groups of millennials who are voting on two issues -- getting free birth control meds and abortion.

This holiday season will be the second since last year's election. I fully expect there to be more than a few heated discussions.

54

Fasten Your Seatbelts - The Crazy Has Started (Also, bring the Koolaid)

by berrygerry in

from facebook:just saw my jw mother after not seeing her for more than 2 years.

when i do see her, it is brief, she never asks about my life, doesn't ask about my 4 children her grandchildren, doesn't ask about my grandchildren...her great grandchildren, she doesn't ask about my other 2 brothers that she is also alienated from, she doesn't ask about my brothers family.

she doesn't talk about the jw/org either.

Cold Steel

Wait...the guy does have a point. Why would Satan be wasting his time on the Jehovah's Witness organization if they didn't have the truth? None of you guys can explain that one! First of all, I've come to respect people who type in all caps. It shows resolve of purpose, a steadiness of spiritual gait. And you have to admit it, Ol' Nick does seem to have it in for JWs. Even worldly unbelievers don't reflect as much hatred towards JWs as apostates, so again, this guy has you there. You guys are all apostates, whilst I'm an unbeliever. And you're a lot worse than I am.

So why do I have to suffer the same fate? Doesn't seem quite right. And if fire started falling from heaven, all you guys would immediately "think" Armageddon, even if it was nothing more than a rather large comet entering the atmosphere three times the speed of the fastest bullet.

If you guys end up being wrong, what are YOU going to think when Armageddon hits at 3:38 p.m. GMT on January 7, 2018? Your last thought would be, "Oh, my God, I was sooooo wron...." and then you're gone. Nothing more. Your very existence would be snuffed out! But so would mine. If you guys are worse, why do I have to suffer the same fate? Maybe I'll get a second chance due to my disarmingly good looks and pure spirit.

It might happen.

17

John's Two Witnesses...Who Are/Were They?

by Cold Steel in

do the scripture writers at hq allow for any scriptural exegesis that recognizes the state of israel as fulfillment of ancient prophecy?

isaiah, for example, writes: .

and it shall come to pass in that day, that the lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from assyria, and from egypt, and from pathros, and from cush, and from elam, and from shinar, and from hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

Cold Steel

I've never been a JW, but I have family who are. They stopped talking to us years ago and I first came here to find out why. Since then, I've studied many of their doctrines and, of course, I don't abide by them.

To refute the above arguments, I would have to go back and study them and just don't have the time. I am fairly well read on Greek and Roman history and I know that Alexander built a causeway to the island portion of Tyre and he did a fairly good job of decimating the city during his campaign. (The causeway is still there.) The debate is between those who believe in biblical prophecy and those who don't, and those involved in apologetics defend Ezekiel's prophecies while those who don't believe the prophecies try to show they were not fulfilled.

If Ezekiel's prophecies are, on their face, false, one wonders why the Jews view Ezekiel as one of their greatest prophets. Ezekiel is known for many prophecies that came to pass. Since Tyre is considered his greatest bust, I decided to address that one. One apologist, G. Smith, dissected the Tyrian prophecy and came up with what I think is a reasonable response. See his articles, PART 2 and PART 3. Tyre was once a great, magnificent Phonetician city which existed both in the mainland and on an island. Ezekiel was correct that there were many nations that came against it from Babylon to the Medes and Persians to the Greeks and others. Ezekiel said it would be a place where fishermen would spread their nets, meaning it would be a fishing community. But it also was a site for those who wished to see the ruins of its buildings and walls. To say no one would live on the island portion is a stretch.

DeeGee posted a number of pages, the stated purpose of which was to discredit the Bible. In just one example, author Ferrell Till stated, "The next verse says that no human foot or animal foot would pass through it for 40 years." So we go to the scripture he cites and it states, "I will make the land of Egypt a desolation among desolated countries; and her cities shall be a desolation forty years among cities that are laid waste. I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, and disperse them among the countries." (Ezekiel 29:12) By attempting to force a strained interpretation on the scriptures, where "desolation" means "no human foot or animal foot would pass through it," one can prove whatever one wishes. Bible commentator John Gill addresses this chapter and comes to the alternate conclusion that, "The utter destruction of which, with the rest of Egypt prophesied of, appears to have been fulfilled." It all depends on what one hopes to prove. But answering Till point to point would be time consuming and futile. Again, one doubts the Jews would count an obviously false prophet as one of their greats.

My belief as a Christian is that the Bible is NOT without error. Obviously Nebonidus was the king who went mad for seven years because he left a record of it. But the Bible erroneously states it was Nebuchadnezzar. The fact that Nebonidus went mad in fulfillment of the Lord's dictum shows that the prophecy was good even if the transcription was not. Also, Belshazzar was the son of Nebonidus, not Nebuchadnezzar, and he was never king. But the story of Daniel's interpretation of the writing on the wall was nevertheless correct, even if Jewish scribes decided to insert the more famous names into Daniel's narrative.

40

Casting Out DEMONS

by Cold Steel in

if someone believes they're being plagued with demons or they have problems with hauntings, things moving by themselves or hearing voices or footsteps, who they gonna call?

i know they take demons very seriously, so who in the congregation do they go to when they need to bring out the big guns?

do they try to handle it themselves or is this a job for the elders?

Cold Steel

Let's forget about psychotics. Let's just talk about people who aren't psychotic.

What of them? Even if someone is cured of their psychosis, I wouldn't trust them to tell me the truth.

Neither of my two friends were psychotic. Both are people I would have trusted my life with. If they tell me these things happened, I take them at their word, just as if they'd witnessed a traffic accident. Because I've lived in homes that are more than single-level dwellings, I know what it sounds like to hear someone upstairs walking around over me. And when I hear footsteps, I dang well know someone is up there.

But what if there isn't? What could explain someone hearing the sound of a large chest of drawers falling over and making enough of a sound that you'd go get a gun? To say everyone who's experienced this sort of thing, or who's seen a UFO the size of a football field flying overhead (including several police officers), are psychotic is denial. Again, if these things are real (whether you want to call them demons or evil spirits, ghosts, whatever), then they need to be explained. And yes, I believe their existence implies there's a God. But if you don't believe in God, you should also be open-minded enough to accept that their might be alternative explanations that lie outside of the human psyche.

These type of phenomena have been around for centuries and are not affected by the various developments in photography. What about the news team that visited the house and were pinched, touched and videotaped a door closing by itself? No one explanation will apply to everyone.

40

Casting Out DEMONS

by Cold Steel in

if someone believes they're being plagued with demons or they have problems with hauntings, things moving by themselves or hearing voices or footsteps, who they gonna call?

i know they take demons very seriously, so who in the congregation do they go to when they need to bring out the big guns?

do they try to handle it themselves or is this a job for the elders?

Cold Steel

One then wonders why they appear as ghosts or evil entities. Why not come across as non-threatening? Why the laughing, threatening hostility?

40

Casting Out DEMONS

by Cold Steel in

if someone believes they're being plagued with demons or they have problems with hauntings, things moving by themselves or hearing voices or footsteps, who they gonna call?

i know they take demons very seriously, so who in the congregation do they go to when they need to bring out the big guns?

do they try to handle it themselves or is this a job for the elders?

Cold Steel

DeeGee » If demons are real then why is it that when persons are cured of their psychotic symptoms they don't continue to see demons and/or have encounters with them? Why did the demons disappear?

Because they're psychotic. If demons, evil spirits, ghosts don't exist, why do people who aren't psychotic continue to see them? Why do entire families see and hear them?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4SprJ7srFc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLMYMi0N8YA .

22

Do they even realise how disgustingly immoral this is and how badly it reflects on the God they worship?

by doubtfull1799 in

found this little gem when going through the daily texts.... so let me get this straight.... god knows your suffering really badly and wants to help.

he knows you feel like you're at your limit, but he also knows that you are not really - that you can handle some more suffering.

so instead of helping, he "patiently" waits till you are at your absolute limit, and only then does he help!?.

Cold Steel

It goes to what the purpose of life is.

Why are we here? Where did we come from? Religion attempts to answer this regardless of what it is. The religion that terrifies me more than any other is reincarnation. Once is enough for me to go around this merry-go-round. I knew a guy who thinks he's the reincarnation of Thomas Andrews, the designer of the Titanic. He grew up asking about aunts and uncles he never had, drawing pictures of a great ship with little boats in the water. As an adult he went to a hypnotherapist who specialized in past life regressions. He remembers thinking, "This is never going to work," and then he went under. He began speaking in a Scotch-Irish brogue and he later marketed the tapes. It was like listening to someone telling the story of his life. The family of Mr. Andrews, who perished on board the ship he designed, is not happy about this fellow. I've listened to his tapes a dozen times just for entertainment and wondered how he could have such experiences. But in one story, Andrews reports a verbal exchange with two other men, then leaves. Then he continues the story with what the men said after he left. How could someone "remember" a conversation he was not present to hear? Still, he spoke of his first car, the woman he married; he complained she was more interested in his car than in him (their first date was a ride in the car). He talked about being a kid, keeping bees, playing soccer; of being a mid-line manager, learning about steels. He talked about his dad, a constable and a religious man who had no toleration for alcohol. I wondered, where do people come up with that stuff.

When I talked to him, he told me he had memories, some vague, some more vivid. For example, he says he remembers vividly standing of scaffolds overlooking the twin ships Titanic and Olympic. I have no theories as to how these memories got into his head. He said he was punished as a child. Once, in school, he said he was caught staring out into a lake choked with ice near his school. He said the teacher dragged him from the room while he told her and the students to "stop millin' about and get into the little boats!"

Very strange. Don't know if the tapes or CDs are still available, but they used to be available from Amazon.

17

John's Two Witnesses...Who Are/Were They?

by Cold Steel in

do the scripture writers at hq allow for any scriptural exegesis that recognizes the state of israel as fulfillment of ancient prophecy?

isaiah, for example, writes: .

and it shall come to pass in that day, that the lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from assyria, and from egypt, and from pathros, and from cush, and from elam, and from shinar, and from hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

Cold Steel

Many times prophecy requires an acute knowledge of history. Theologians have already addressed those prophecies, showing that the fulfillments were literal and applicable to history. One notes concerning the 390 days/years:

Notice the 390 days represent 390 years. God himself says this clearly in Ezekiel 4:6. Careful study of the years following Jeroboam's rebellion indicate just 390 years until the last king of Judah is dethroned. At the same time as the kings of Judah are permanently "defrocked," the temple and city of Jerusalem is destroyed. This was accomplished in the 18th year of captivity under the reign of Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon who besieged Jerusalem for 18 months before it succumbed. At this point, the first part of Ezekiel's prophecy is fulfilled.
Some will ask what Judah's kings have to do with the sin of Israel. First, Judah (which included the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin), represented the kingdom of Israel which God had set up. Judah maintained those kings of David's lineage, with the authority of the throne that had been established by God Himself. Judah also encompassed Jerusalem, the city God had chosen to place His name there-meaning the temple. All of Israel, not just Judah, should have worshiped God in that temple. Second, the kings of the ten tribes of Israel, referred to simply as "Israel" in this prophecy, had rebelled against Judah, against the temple, and thus against God. All of those kings, God says, were evil. Although the kings' power was forcibly removed well before the 390 years had been completed, the people of the ten tribes still followed in the Godless practices to which those kings had led them in the centuries prior. They never returned to the temple services as a people throughout the 390 years of their probation.
Judah and Benjamin, which should have done more to bring their brethren back to worship in the temple, had instead also succumbed to pagan practices and some of Judah's kings had led Judah away from God as well. As a result, Judah would suffer the same fate as did Israel. (Understanding Ezekiel's Prophecies)

So much of Israel's worship centered in temple worship. Methodist scholar Margaret Barker is a recognized as an authority on temple, and I'd recommend her books and YouTube videos.

Regarding the city of Tyre, another commentator writes:

After a closer look at the text, however, such an interpretation is misguided. Ezekiel began his prophecy by stating that “many nations” would come against Tyre (26:3). Then he proceeded to name Nebuchadnezzar, and stated that “he” would build a siege mound, “he” would slay with the sword, and “he” would do numerous other things (26:7-11). However, in 26:12, the pronoun shifts from the singular “he” to the plural “they.” It is in verse 12 and following that Ezekiel predicts that “they” will lay the stones and building material of Tyre in the “midst of the waters.” The shift in pronouns is of vast significance, since it shifts the subject of the action from Nebuchadnezzar (he) back to the many nations (they). Till and others fail to see this shift and mistakenly apply the utter destruction of Tyre to the efforts of Nebuchadnezzar.
Furthermore, Ezekiel was well aware of Nebuchadnezzar’s failure to destroy the city. Sixteen years after his initial prediction, in the 27th year of Johoiachin’s captivity (circa 570 B.C.), he wrote: “Son of man, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon caused his army to labor strenuously against Tyre; every head was made bald, and every shoulder rubbed raw; yet neither he nor his army received wages from Tyre, for the labor which they expended on it” (29:18). Therefore, in regard to the prophecy of Tyre as it relates to Nebuchadnezzar’s activity, at least two of the elements were fulfilled (i.e., the siege mound and the slaying of the inhabitants in the field).
Regarding the prediction that “many nations” would come against Tyre, the historical records surrounding the illustrious city report such turmoil and war that Ezekiel’s prophecy looks like a mild understatement of the facts. After Nebuchadnezzar’s attack of the city “a period of great depression” plagued the city which was assimilated into the Persian Empire around 538 B.C. (Fleming, p. 47). In 392 B.C., “Tyre was involved in the war which arose between the Persians and Evagorus of Cyprus” in which the king of Egypt “took Tyre by assault” (p. 52). Sixty years later, in 332, Alexander the Great besieged Tyre and crushed it (see below for further elaboration). Soon after this defeat, Ptolemy of Egypt conquered and subjugated Tyre until about 315 B.C. when Atigonus of Syria besieged Tyre for 15 months and captured it (Fleming, p. 65). In fact, Tyre was contested by so many foreign forces that Fleming wrote: “It seemed ever the fate of the Phoenician cities to be between an upper and a nether millstone” (p. 66). Babylon, Syria, Egypt, Rome, Greece, Armenia, and Persia are but a sampling of the “many nations” that had a part in the ultimate destruction of Tyre. Thus, Ezekiel’s prophecy about “many nations” remains as a historical reality that cannot be successfully gainsaid. (Ezekiel's Prophecy On Tyre)

54

Fasten Your Seatbelts - The Crazy Has Started (Also, bring the Koolaid)

by berrygerry in

from facebook:just saw my jw mother after not seeing her for more than 2 years.

when i do see her, it is brief, she never asks about my life, doesn't ask about my 4 children her grandchildren, doesn't ask about my grandchildren...her great grandchildren, she doesn't ask about my other 2 brothers that she is also alienated from, she doesn't ask about my brothers family.

she doesn't talk about the jw/org either.

Cold Steel

DaysOfFuturePassed » It could be just your mom's particular hall that is ramping it up. In the hall I grew up in, they were very attentive to any change or announcement from the Wt.

It's odd. For a church that doesn't believe in revelation or in the gifts of the Spirit, that's a completely irregular way of looking at it. The GB doesn't claim to talk to angels or even God, so how would they hear from God to pass on instructions. Either the people think the GB is plugged in or the GB has found it useful to let them think they're plugged in. One wonders how God would communicate with them. Dreams?

Still, after 1974, I can't believe they'd do it again.